The Financials: FAS vs. FAZ [Archive]

XL-entLady

02-16-2009, 02:52 PM

The fight between FAS and FAZ is one of the hottest ones going on right now. With that in mind, I thought the battle was worth its own thread. So let's discuss financials here! :)

I found the following article fascinating. If you're interested in the financials ETFs the entire article (a fairly long one) is well worth the read.

http://www.dailymarkets.com/stocks/2009/02/16/fas-vs-faz-bulls-vs-bears/

"...but for now, just absord the fact that each intersection the RSI and the FS%K creates, it is either a buy or a sell. If the FS%K is moving ABOVE the RSI, it’s a buy; if the FS%K is moving BELOW the RSI, it’s a sell. Below is a list of times, dates, and average candle prices for timed, majorly connected FAS/FAZ trades:
10:30am, 2-5-09: FAS buy @ $8.05, FAZ sell @ $57.02
2:45pm, 2-5-09: FAS sell @ $9.45, FAZ buy @ $47.82
1:30pm, 2-9-09: FAS sell @ $11.26, FAZ buy @ $38.78
3:45pm, 2-10-09: FAS buy @ $8.22, FAZ sell @ $49.45
1:00pm, 2-11-09: FAS sell @ $8.81, FAZ buy @ $45.09
2:15pm, 2-11-09: FAS buy @ $8.44, FAZ sell @ $47.40
3:45pm, 2-11-09: FAS sell @ $8.84 (pre-close sell)
9:30am, 2-12-09: FAZ buy @ $47.88 (off-the-open buy)
3:00pm, 2-12-09: FAS buy @ $7.61, FAZ sell @ $50.42
11:00am, 2-13-09: FAS sell @ $8.38, FAZ buy @ $46.79
From here, the indicators didn’t signal anymore trades. The purple trade (#2) was an indicator head fake, for FAS shouldn’t have been sold and no way should FAZ have been bought. If you would have analyzed the charts prior to using indicators, however, you would have realized this and not relied on the indicator to trade for you in this situation. Using these indicators with your volume spikes and your price comparisons, you could have made a ton of money off of FAS and FAZ in this 10-Day time span.
As for the beginning of next week, weekend news will no doubt play a significant role as to how Tuesday’s open will trend. For now, I would use FAS’ descending triangle pattern and FAZ’s ascending triangle pattern in order to have somewhat of a backbone to trade off of in relation to this deadly ETF/iETF combination.
Hope this helps you on your journey to tearing up the market and not letting it tear up you.
UPDATE: The link seen below is a mock $100,000 trading portfolio that backtested the RSI-%K Trading Strategy for FAS and FAZ. The Trading Strategy itself is still in the works, but it took in some nice profits through the 10 Day time span discussed above:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=peX30LFa4TaQ3ikIlqwTtMw (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=peX30LFa4TaQ3ikIlqwTtMw)
"

Lady

etftalk

02-16-2009, 03:51 PM

Wow, there's a big old head and shoulders pattern on that FAS chart. It's a small pattern (time-wise) but it looks bearish. H&S target is about $3.50

XL-entLady

02-24-2009, 01:11 PM

FAZ, the financial 3x bear, has just been going nuts the last couple of months. Doubling its worth and then some. So what happens to FAS and FAZ if (when...) the government nationalizes the banks?

IMHO the most likely scenario is that FAZ keeps climbing gradually higher as the banks are slowly absorbed into the government system with bail-outs in exchange for preferred stock options.

But if a second scenario materializes, what happens to FAS and FAZ then? This is not a rhetorical question. I'd really love to get your opinions! What do you think?

Lady

etftalk

02-24-2009, 01:37 PM

Wow, there's a big old head and shoulders pattern on that FAS chart. It's a small pattern (time-wise) but it looks bearish. H&S target is about $3.50
FYI, FAS was 7.93 when I wrote that a week ago, and yesterday the low was 3.92. I love when technical analysis works.

etftalk

02-24-2009, 01:41 PM

But if a second scenario materializes, what happens to FAS and FAZ then? This is not a rhetorical question. I'd really love to get your opinions! What do you think?
I won't venure a guess since I am not sure what happens when the gov't owns the stock.

But did anyone hear Cramer yesterday saying something to the affect of; those who buy ETF's like SKF (short financials) are a big part of the problem and the SEC should stop these short funds?

alevin

02-24-2009, 01:56 PM

Morning Lady. "nother question. FS%K? What's that? Haven't run across that indicator before? is it only available on your paid StockCharts site?

XL-entLady

02-24-2009, 02:12 PM

Morning Lady. "nother question. FS%K? What's that? Haven't run across that indicator before? is it only available on your paid StockCharts site?
That one doesn't ring a bell. There is a K line in Stochastics, but the FS part ....:confused: Where did you see the indicator?

Lady

alevin

02-24-2009, 03:57 PM

"...but for now, just absord the fact that each intersection the RSI and the FS%K creates, it is either a buy or a sell. If the FS%K is moving ABOVE the RSI, it’s a buy; if the FS%K is moving BELOW the RSI, it’s a sell. UPDATE: The link seen below is a mock $100,000 trading portfolio that backtested the RSI-%K Trading Strategy for FAS and FAZ. The Trading Strategy itself is still in the works, but it took in some nice profits through the 10 Day time span discussed above:http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=peX30LFa4TaQ3ikIlqwTtMw (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=peX30LFa4TaQ3ikIlqwTtMw)
"

Lady

OK, I got it now, I think. The shorthand in your article was too cryptic. :embarrest: Second question. I don't know how to put RSI and Fast-Sto on the same chart, can I just look at them same time on separate charts and see what he's talking about?

XL-entLady

02-24-2009, 04:35 PM

OK, I got it now, I think. The shorthand in your article was too cryptic. :embarrest: Second question. I don't know how to put RSI and Fast-Sto on the same chart, can I just look at them same time on separate charts and see what he's talking about?
Okay, I see where your question is coming from now. I think this guy uses TradeStation, which allows you to make your own blended oscillators on the charts.

In order to get the same effect, I use StochRSI on stockcharts.com. I can't remember if that is an option I had before I started paying for the stockcharts upgrade or not. But it's an indicator that I really love, and it would keep me out of trouble more often if I'd use it like I'm supposed to!

And if you don't have the StochRSI option, you can just put RSI and Fast-Sto on the same chart and use the information that way. Let me know what you think, okay? :)

Lady

JTH

03-11-2009, 11:57 PM

Today's action in FAS/FAZ was interesting to watch. In case your wondering, the wify has friends in from out of town, so I'm hiding in my room (translation, too much time on my computer.)

FAS (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=FAS) Financial Bull 3x 4.02+0.29(+7.67%)

FAZ (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=FAZ) Financial Bear 3x 56.09-5.41(-8.80%)

Here is an unweighted look at today's closes

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q261/Kendlefox/untitled-5.png

etftalk

03-12-2009, 12:20 AM

In case your wondering, the wify has friends in from out of town, so I'm hiding in my room (translation, too much time on my computer.)

I feel for you man. :sick:

JTH

03-12-2009, 05:21 AM

More tripe to bog down the servers... :rolleyes:

Here are some hourly charts. Who's going to be filling in the gap?

2625

JTH

03-12-2009, 03:10 PM

More tripe to bog down the servers... :rolleyes:

Here are some hourly charts. Who's going to be filling in the gap?

2625

Looking to see if FAS can enter into 4.50 territory.

JTH

03-12-2009, 10:44 PM

Out of 190+ Stocks tracked by FAS, only 3 closed in the red today!

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q261/Kendlefox/FASSS.jpg

JTH

03-16-2009, 03:38 PM

Out of 190+ Stocks tracked by FAS, only 3 closed in the red today!

At the moment (20 minute delay) 36% or 70 FAS stocks are in the red.

JTH

03-16-2009, 04:20 PM

Looking at XLF

Last time it pierced through the upper bollinger bands was in Sep 2008.

Last time it pierced through the 50 SMA it was promply rejected and what followed was a land slide.

XLF is now approaching a point where the upper bollinger band and the 50 SMA are close together. Perhaps this will provide a stong area of resistance. :)

31

XL-entLady

03-16-2009, 04:33 PM

XLF is now approaching a point where the upper bollinger band and the 50 SMA are close together. Perhaps this will provide a stong area of resistance. :)

From your mouth to ... oh, violated trader rule number 6 about praying again. :toung:

Lady

XL-entLady

03-17-2009, 04:54 PM

I finally put a trailing stop on half my FAZ position this morning. A 10% trailing stop and it's just about to trigger. :eek:

Lady

JTH

03-17-2009, 06:04 PM

I finally put a trailing stop on half my FAZ position this morning. A 10% trailing stop and it's just about to trigger. :eek:

Lady

Yea there are a whole bunch of us in the FAZ camp :blink1:

I don't regret owning FAZ, but I do regret owning so much of it that I can't go out and play with the current uptrend.

I also regret not respecting & recognizing the bear rally early enough, but that's a whole different story...

JTH

03-18-2009, 03:11 AM

But, soft! what light through yonder window breaks?
It is the east, and FAZ is the sun.
Arise, fair FAZ, and kill the envious moon,
Who is already sick and pale with grief, :sad:

5 Minute
36

Daily
35

350Z

03-18-2009, 03:24 AM

But, soft! what light through yonder window breaks?
It is the east, and FAZ is the sun.
Arise, fair FAZ, and kill the envious moon,
Who is already sick and pale with grief, :sad:

JTH,

Be right sit tight. Our day in FAZ will come. The bulls are about to reach their orgasmic peak. When they fall, it will be epic. The .gov have not done anything to fix this mess. We have tent cities and folks living in the woods, in the U.S.

The market is just not finish drawing in the suckers yet. We have just entered overbought.

XL-entLady

03-18-2009, 03:40 AM

But, soft! what light through yonder window breaks?
It is the east, and FAZ is the sun.
Arise, fair FAZ, and kill the envious moon,
Who is already sick and pale with grief, :sad:

ROFL!:nuts: I was thinking of another quote myself:

To be or not to be, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles and, by opposing, end them.

At least, I think that's how it goes. It's been a few decades since my English Lit classes. :toung:

Lady

Here$14U

03-18-2009, 03:06 PM

I posted this at the other site, something to think about.

There is a doomsday scenario we should all be aware of that could come to fruition. Because of the AIG scandal (paid bonuses), there is very little political will now to give AIG anymore bailout money. If it is revealed today (or in the future) that AIG will need more bailout money, the chances are very good they will not get it. We are then at a place where the whole global financial structure is in deep jeopardy. Folks, this is going to get very interesting as well as scary.

If this happens buy all the FAZ you can.

JTH

03-18-2009, 03:36 PM

If this happens buy all the FAZ you can.

Thanks for the incite :)

FAZ not off to a good start this morning.

38

Gumby

03-18-2009, 03:40 PM

JTH

03-18-2009, 09:35 PM

Ever the optimist, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a lousy technical analyst. Nevertheless, I'm not worried about my losing position in FAZ, after all I'm only down 48.28% I'm not worried because I know that when times get tough, I can always make stuff up to make myself feel better. So to make myself feel better, I'll take a look at XLF and make my case for the hungry bear.

The Slow STO is now in overbought territory. If you'll notice the yellow line I drew across the STO's peaks, than you'll also notice it hasn't spent much time in overbought territory within the last nine months.

Moving on... Anyone who watches Oscar's crazy videos on You Tube knows that he likes to point out trading channels. So to make myself feel better I've made up a channel that shows us we have not broken the trend and that the trend is still down. We also haven't gotten above the 2nd previous swing high.

Now for the ADX. The main ADX trend indicator is what I would consider to be in Neutral and it has been pretty good at marking short-term market bottoms when it peaks.

But I don't want to focus on the main indicator, I want to focus on the Positive trend +DI and the Negative trend -DI. They are both at the peak of their trending range which leads me to believe they will turn around soon.

I'll give it about a week, if the Bear doesn't feed, than I'll shoot him myself... :toung:

39

Rod

03-18-2009, 10:48 PM

If it is revealed today (or in the future) that AIG will need more bailout money, the chances are very good they will not get it. We are then at a place where the whole global financial structure is in deep jeopardy.

If the affect on AIG not getting bail out money is truly as doomsdayish as it is made out to be, then the Fed will bail them out regardless.

All stops will be pulled out in order to avoid the ultimate global market melt-down. You can bet on it.

Here$14U

03-19-2009, 04:39 AM

I think I've read that there is about $63 Trillion in derivatives, credit default swaps, etc. outstanding for which no one knows their worth. How much of this toxic stuff remain on AIG's books? If the bailout money for AIG (if asked for by AIG) is not passed by Congress, than the Fed will bail them out?! The Fed is now buying US Treasuries to keep interest rates down, most likely to keep the National Debt affordable. Between buying Treasuries and the possibility of bailing out AIG, should AIG ask for billions more, what will the Fed's balance sheet look like? The US Dollar took a pounding today, so obviously the Fed doesn't care what toilet the $ goes down as long as interest rates don't go higher. Looks like the US $ is toast to me. Gold and Silver should do well if the $ heads down.:)

alevin

03-19-2009, 06:32 AM

Never thought I'd turn into something resembling a goldbug, but here I go. Got a good start anyway. I was a penniless grad student in mid80s when the west coast timber market was in the toilet, companies overpaid for timber, went bankrupt. I got a windfall (for me) insurance payout. I was afraid to stick it in savings account at 17% in the credit union because I'd never had enough money to have a savings account prior to then, was afraid to put all that money into a savings account because then I wouldn't have full fingertip access to it if I needed it. It slowly slipped away paying living and education costs over the next few years and buying a new Honda Civic to replace my old Chevy that had 125K miles on it. Wish I'd had the grasp I do now on the economy back then and ways I could have managed those funds to make them last longer, vs. the ignorance I had back in dealing with my investing opportunity that I was too financially illiterate to handle well.

Gumby

03-19-2009, 10:32 AM

The US Dollar took a pounding today, so obviously the Fed doesn't care what toilet the $ goes down as long as interest rates don't go higher. Looks like the US $ is toast to me.

The American dollar has been devalued with this move by the FED. I cannot see a good outcome to this.:mad:

XL-entLady

03-19-2009, 12:57 PM

XLF Bias Depends on Time Frame (http://vixandmore.blogspot.com/2009/03/xlf-bias-depends-on-time-frame.html)

By Bill Luby, 3/18/09

Lately it seems as if the financial sector is the market. For this reason, I now watch the financial sector SPDR (XLF (http://vixandmore.blogspot.com/search/label/XLF)) and the KBW Bank Index (BKX (http://vixandmore.blogspot.com/search/label/BKX)) tick by tick, in addition to a handful of financial stocks that seem to be in the most peril on a particular day.
In my opinion, however, XLF is the best way to capture the full extent of goings on in the financial sector, from banks and brokerage houses to insurers and consumer finance companies, XLF pretty much covers the waterfront.
The chart below captures the last six months of action in XLF and highlights the problem facing XLF and the broader markets at the moment. Stocks are overbought in the short-term and oversold in the long-term.
Rather than use oscillators to show how overbought and oversold stocks are, I generally prefer to rely on a combination of moving averages and trend strength indicators, with volatility as an important secondary indicator. Looking at the moving averages, XLF is now well above the 10 day MA and running up against resistance in the form of the 50 day MA. In terms of trend, utilizing the Aroon (http://vixandmore.blogspot.com/search/label/Aroon) indicator to measure trend and breakout strength, XLF is bullish in the 10 day calculations, but bearish from a 30 day perspective. In this chart there is not much to see in terms of volatility, but by tracking in the upper half of the Bollinger Bands (http://vixandmore.blogspot.com/search/label/Bollinger%20bands), XLF generally has positive short-term momentum, while proximity to the upper band suggests a reversal is likely soon.
So there you have it: bullish momentum triggering buying on the part of the trend following crowd, while overbought indicators have the swing trading crowd ready to get short. Such is the current state of the market. The direction in which you lean is more likely to be a function of the time horizon (http://vixandmore.blogspot.com/search/label/time%20horizon) of your analysis than any other technical factor.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m163/bl82/XLF2Aroons031809.gif
[source: StockCharts]

Disclosure: Short XLF at time of writing.

http://www.greenfaucet.com/technical-analysis/xlf-bias-depends-on-your-time-horizon/98485

Lady

JTH

03-19-2009, 02:40 PM

60 Minute chart for those of us loving on some FAZ :toung:

43

JTH

03-19-2009, 06:53 PM

Looking at the charts (like I do anything else) I'll be somewhat encouraged if FAS closes under 6.00 & FAZ closes above 30.00

Shoot for the moon, ask for the stars...

JTH

03-23-2009, 03:50 PM

Let the epic battle begin...

FAS dressed in green

FAZ dressed in red

FAS is handed the ball with a spike in volume...

FAZ takes a hit, but the ground is pretty soft when you're only four foot tall... :toung:

69

JTH

03-25-2009, 05:31 PM

Please DELETE

JTH

03-25-2009, 05:32 PM

Our friend the FAS might give us a, HOURLY cross-over sell signal on the ADX. Although it may cross over today, I myself wouldn't call it an official sell signal untill we get a stonger divergance (something like 5-10 points of seperation)

The FAZ chart's ADX is not telling the same opposite story, so something isn't lined up correctly. :rolleyes:

73

JTH

03-27-2009, 05:08 PM

I got FAZed over @ 50... Lets get the FAZ out of here! This thing is FAZed up! I do admit, my technical numbers are a little FAZzy :toung:

I like to think that our badly beaten down FAZ is forming a base. A base of operations from which to plan its next attack on its evil twin brother FAS. Tech carried this rally while FAS was riding its back.

If I'm wrong, well it really doesn't matter because I'm in @ FAZin 50 and that was wrong! I can only continue to be wrong untill I'm right.

75

XL-entLady

03-27-2009, 05:36 PM

I agree, J! If FAS doesn't get a Geithner Goose, then FAZ might make it off the ETF Hospital's critical list. :toung:

Lady

JTH

04-02-2009, 06:23 PM

You know considering all the hoopla about the mark-to-market and the G20, I think FAZ has held up rather well.

etftalk

04-02-2009, 07:11 PM

Maybe - the XLF is up 3% and FAZ is down 9%. I guess that's just a daily typical swing and could be worse given the news. I am a little surprised that we didn't get a "sell the news" reaction since this was expected (I thought it was anyway).

JTH

04-03-2009, 04:19 AM

And so the saga continues :rolleyes:

I'm watching FAS for an exit out of FAZ. For those holding FAZ in the 20s, I imagine life is looking pretty good right now. As for myself, I'm just looking objectively for a good exit.

Hourly Chart 16 days. If we can close below the solid green trendline, then I'll be voting for a gap fill and possible run to 5.40
97

Looking at On Balance Volume. We have Lower Highs.
98

Looking at the ADX trend strength. We have Lower Highs and have moved into the "choppy" area.
99

JTH

04-06-2009, 06:47 AM

I suppose I could hold on for another 20 years and let my kids use the money to pay off the debt the government has passed onto them?

Ugly, ugly, ugly chart...

104

etftalk

04-07-2009, 08:05 PM

FAZ closed at the high of the day. Good sign (for the bears)

Gumby

04-08-2009, 01:35 AM

FAZ closed at the high of the day. Good sign (for the bears)

Go Bears!

JTH

04-08-2009, 02:37 PM

So some folks let go of their FAZ this morning. I can't say I blame them, it's been on the wrong side of the trade since the 666

etftalk

04-08-2009, 05:26 PM

Financials are actually lagging now. Probably a good time to short (now that I sold FAZ). :D

There is that strong positive seasonality for Thursday (pre-Good Friday) and a negative bias for Monday (post Easter). That said, I'm not a big fan of using seasonality right now. The other market forces are too great.

I'd like to see how the market opens on Monday, but if we rally today and / or Thursday, I might start getting short again for Monday. The greed in me hates to miss a gap down open - if that is what we get. I don't mind missing a gap higher because I think it would be short-lived.

XL-entLady

04-09-2009, 03:18 AM

I knew the math was bad. I didn't know it was this bad.:(

"Much has been written about the math behind leveraged ETFs and mutual funds, yet most investors fail to realize the true impact. ....For this example, I have chosen two inversely related leveraged funds: Direxion Financial Bull 3x Shares (NYSE: FAS (http://studio-5.financialcontent.com/greenfaucet/?Page=QUOTE&Ticker=FAS)) and Direxion Financial Bear 3x Shares (NYSE: FAZ (http://studio-5.financialcontent.com/greenfaucet/?Page=QUOTE&Ticker=FAZ)). The chart below illustrates the returns for the five-month period from 11/6/2008 through 4/6/2009 for the following four scenarios:

Green Line: Buy and hold FAS = -86.3%
Red Line: Buy and hold FAZ = -76.9%
Yellow Line: Buy and hold equal amounts of FAS and FAZ with no rebalancing (what some might consider a perfect hedge) = -81.6%
Cyan Line: Buy equal amounts of FAS and FAZ and rebalance every day (a lot of work) = -25.0% (not counting transaction fees and slippage)

http://investwithanedge.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/fas-faz.jpg (http://investwithanedge.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/fas-faz.jpg)"

http://www.greenfaucet.com/technical-analysis/the-3x-impact/46093

Lady

JTH

04-09-2009, 04:01 AM

Thanks Lady, I hadn't realized just how bad it was until I saw your chart and did some price performance back testing myself just to confirm.

It should be about criminal what is happening. :mad:

Today's price performance.
113

Last 10 days
114

115

XL-entLady

04-09-2009, 08:51 PM

One of my all-time favorite blogspots is "Slope of Hope" and today I felt his pain when he said, "I am not touching FAZ again...........ever..........":wacko:

http://www.slopeofhope.com/

Lady

JTH

04-09-2009, 09:20 PM

One of my all-time favorite blogspots is "Slope of Hope" and today I felt his pain when he said, "I am not touching FAZ again...........ever..........":wacko:

http://www.slopeofhope.com/

Lady

I have no problems with FAZ as a short-term trade only. But it sure does have to be watched closely and/or have stops in place. :toung:

XL-entLady

04-09-2009, 09:53 PM

I have no problems with FAZ as a short-term trade only. But it sure does have to be watched closely and/or have stops in place. :toung:
Tim at Slope of Hope is a day-trader, and a good one. So I guess it isn't just us newbie swing traders that are getting bit by that one. My personal opinion is that FAZ is a very short 4-letter word. :toung:

Lady

alevin

04-10-2009, 04:03 AM

Yup, glad my aversion to loss spotted the potential before I went out on a date with it. Stickin' with the single X's, still thinking about getting margin set up so I can do straight shorts, puts and calls, and not be limited to inverses. Corepuncher is having WAYYYYY too much fun with his margin, tho sounds like he has a big bigger stash to play with than I have to begin with. I move slow on important things, sometimes too slow-one reason 3x's and I aren't a good match.

JTH

04-13-2009, 03:55 PM

This is a rough environment to trade in. I feel like a sniper hiding & waiting for the perfect kill, then looking for the nearest exit. :toung:

XL-entLady

04-15-2009, 07:21 PM

FAZ is ugly again today. That ETF is a killer.

Lady

alevin

04-16-2009, 01:16 AM

This is a rough environment to trade in. I feel like a sniper hiding & waiting for the perfect kill, then looking for the nearest exit. :toung:

You watchin too many Day of the Jackal movies again, JTH? :toung:

XL-entLady

04-16-2009, 02:38 AM

You watchin too many Day of the Jackal movies again, JTH? :toung:
Just call him Carlos. :bigsmile:

XL-entLady

04-17-2009, 03:42 PM

John C. Lee, who is a fairly astute trader, says he's looking closely at the possibility of going long FAZ. :eek:

http://www.greenfaucet.com/blogs/the-exception

Lady

JTH

05-04-2009, 01:41 AM

Gee, I wonder how they can both have bearish price objectives? :rolleyes:

134135

XL-entLady

05-04-2009, 01:52 AM

Gee, I wonder how they can both have bearish price objectives? :rolleyes:

Until I go broke? :toung:

Lady

etftalk

05-04-2009, 03:32 AM

Interesting JTH.

Ryan

05-04-2009, 02:37 PM

With stress tests coming out on I believe on Thursday, how will FAZ do? I'm hearing that the test results will come out stating that the banks will need more $$$.

Thanks,
RC

etftalk

05-04-2009, 02:45 PM

The question is, will we hear the real results, or what they want us to hear?

That said I would be shorting any rallies this week (since it's worked so well the last 2 months :rolleyes:). :D

BTW, that's shorting stocks, not FAZ.

JTH

05-06-2009, 04:29 PM

Put the FAZ down, it's not worth throwing your life away... :toung:

All sacasim set aside (yea right) the trend is down, and has been down untill proven otherwise. Yes I know that traders like Attila are smarter then me, but picking a bottom for FAZ has put everyone on the wrong side of the trade.

I also ask myself questions that I never know the answer to. Questions like "How can FAZ fall from the 50s and FAS not rise beyond the 11s?"

How about the embedded Stochastics?

Yes I'm still bitter about that 70% hit I took...

145

JTH

05-06-2009, 07:00 PM

I don't get it

FAZ is down almost 20%

The majority of FAS holdings are in the red.

Almost all the big FAS Stocks (by price) are in the red.

This does not compute :mad:

XL-entLady

05-07-2009, 03:08 AM

I owned FAZ from $66 to in the $30's and haven't touched it since. I break out in hives when I think about buying it. I owned FAS from $4 to about $4.50 and have been afraid to buy back in ever since. I cursed FAZ all the way down and now I'm cursing FAS all the way up! :nuts:

Even Slope of Hope's Tim Knight got burned by FAZ again today.

May 06, 2009 - 07:45 PM

FAS, FAZ, and their Charts (http://slopeofhope.com/2009/05/06/fas_faz_and_their_charts.htm)

"Between FAZ and FAS by themselves (which didn't even exist half a year ago), nearly 900 million shares changed hands today. 900 million! Forgive my bluntness, but I'm starting to think that going long FAZ, like buying lottery tickets, is a tax on stupidity. Or at least one of the most efficient wealth transfer mechanisms ever created.

What's apparent to me (a skosh too late) is what a superbly "technical" pattern FAS (its profitable brother) has laid out. Indeed, although a lot of people completely dismiss the ideal of using technical analysis on "ultra" ETFs, it holds up remarkably well in some cases. ...."[more]

http://www.slopeofhope.com/

Lady