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Thread: Short ETFs for Dummies

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    906

    Default Re: Short ETFs for Dummies

    Perhaps you can short the XLF instead for intermediate-term positions. It won't be the 2 X short you had intended, but it's something. Then you can play the SKF for short-term plays at optimal buy / sell points.

    I don't know if this is true of all leveraged ETF's, but there is always the option of shorting the long inverse of the short ETF.
    -- Tom | My Trades

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  3. #12

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    654

    Default Re: Short ETFs for Dummies

    Quote Originally Posted by etftalk View Post
    Perhaps you can short the XLF instead for intermediate-term positions. It won't be the 2 X short you had intended, but it's something. Then you can play the SKF for short-term plays at optimal buy / sell points.

    I don't know if this is true of all leveraged ETF's, but there is always the option of shorting the long inverse of the short ETF.
    I think you have something there! Except that I'll have to diagram it out to follow it!

    Lady
    If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. - Derek Bok

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  5. #13
    alevin Guest
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    Default Re: Short ETFs for Dummies

    I'm learning in my practice account at OptX-very very slowly. I had a limit buy order in on USO, just cuz. It filled today and I gained a whole whopping $4 today . So tonight, thanks to other thread somewhere here I read about SCO being USO inverse, so I put in an order there, with a stop on it.

    And THEN, I put in a trailing stop on a limit sell order for the USO. Does that make any sense at all or does that sound like I'm a total novice that has no clue what I'm doing re conditioning my sell orders? I get to watch how it plays out in the dummy account, but suspect I will yelp for help interpreting what happens with the sell order, and what happens with the stop order on SCO buy order too when/if they fill. That's it for me tonight.

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  7. #14

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    906

    Default Re: Short ETFs for Dummies

    I'm not totally following:

    It sounds like you own USO and have a trailing stop on it.

    You also have an open limit order in to buy SCO and an open stop order in it as well. Just no fills here yet.

    Is that right?
    -- Tom | My Trades

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  9. #15
    alevin Guest
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    Default Re: Short ETFs for Dummies

    I'm not being very clear, am I? Shows how new I am at this. Haven't even learned how to talk about it very well yet.

    Ok, yes, I bought USO today on a limit order at 24.40 (practice account using real-time market prices). Day ended up at 24.44, so I gained a whole whopping $4.00 so far on that buy in my first day. However, I really think it's going down much further, so I put a sell order in with a stop-loss limit (I think).

    Since I think USO is going down, I put in an order for SCO also to hedge. I didn't want to pay tooo much for it tho, so I put a stop order on that on the upside (I think that's what I did anyway). OptX has a dummy account I can practice with real-time to get used to their trading platform so that's what I'm doing with these orders. Learning by doing-without risking any real $ yet.

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  11. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    654

    Default Re: Short ETFs for Dummies

    Quote Originally Posted by alevin View Post
    I'm not being very clear, am I? Shows how new I am at this. Haven't even learned how to talk about it very well yet.

    Ok, yes, I bought USO today on a limit order at 24.40 (practice account using real-time market prices). Day ended up at 24.44, so I gained a whole whopping $4.00 so far on that buy in my first day. However, I really think it's going down much further, so I put a sell order in with a stop-loss limit (I think).

    Since I think USO is going down, I put in an order for SCO also to hedge. I didn't want to pay tooo much for it tho, so I put a stop order on that on the upside (I think that's what I did anyway). OptX has a dummy account I can practice with real-time to get used to their trading platform so that's what I'm doing with these orders. Learning by doing-without risking any real $ yet.
    Makes total sense to me. But then I've decided that you and I think a lot alike, Allie!

    Does your practice account allow you to enter a commission fee into the equation? If so, that would be handy. I'm learning that I have to take larger positions that I really might want to. That's because even when I'm right, sometimes I'm not right enough to cover the trading fees in a small position.

    Lady
    If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. - Derek Bok

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  13. #17
    alevin Guest
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    Default Re: Short ETFs for Dummies

    I can't enter commission fees directly, but the virtual account allows me to see what my available balance is after I set up my positions, the filled and unfilled together, and it warns me if I don't have enough $ left to let me enter a position I'm trying to put an order in on.

    For instance I tried to put an order in for 200 shares SCO, but virtual account program told me that would put me $1000 deficit in my account and wouldn't let me do it, so I changed the order to 100 shares.

    The other thing about OptX is I can call a live person to help me figure out how to do what I'm trying to do, I haven't called yet tho.

    And lastly, they have flat trade fees, big, small, makes no difference. I'm working w/100 share blocks for each order. With only $6K (Roth 09 funds) to work with, can't trundle my lil red wagon very far any one day yet.

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